Is techno/house static?

#42

I somewhat agree. The anonomity and reluctance to run with the auteur-myth slash rock-star ego was one of the things attractive to rave/techno in the initial stages. that ethos still exists, although not to the same degree anymore (perhaps in the free-tekno scene, but that music is just awful so who cares).

But really, anonymity of the performer is maybe not the real issue. Going to a rave is to some extent also the same thing as going to a festival (even a commercial one), a temporary free zone, where the mundane are replaced with a experimental exploration of other socialities in a constrained and semi-regulated place. that is the self losing itself in the crowd and becoming one / unconscious being again. A potential transgressive and transcendent experience that also has potential to elevate the self afterwards (you learn something). But you wonā€™t do that everyday and even trying to that every weekend the effect will lose its profundity in no time short. You need to escape your self (individuality or your ego) to rise up again and become a stronger actualized self. But that is not anti-individualism, quite the contrary.

I like Adam Curtis, but maybe more his technique than his ā€˜messageā€™. He sure masters the medium. I donā€™t know what equality on the dance floor means, really, unless you mean something like banning competetive dance, like the ā€˜soul trainā€™ dance moves.

Music is politics, but not in the way we think it is.

Edit: the soul train comment

#43

Ah ok I understand your point better now.
Cheers for a decent and respectful discussion! Quite rare these days, especially when regarding these topicsā€¦

#44

Hmm so youā€™re saying that your record collection is exemplary for electronic music as a whole?

#45

No but should it be? If line-ups should be representative of all groups in society I guess personal record collection should be as well.

#46

No, I wouldnā€™t say that, because to me personal record collections are a matter of personal taste, whereas line-ups are public and therefore send a message to a large group of people.

However, supporting underrepresented artists helps a great deal, so paying for music by women/non-binary/PoC artists instead of asking for promos goes a long way :slight_smile:

#47

This is absurd to me. What about religious affiliation? Should that be equally represented as well?

#48

Yeah once again, our views seem to differ too much to make this a worthwile conversation. Agree to disagree is the way!

#49

No problem. But sooner or later you 're probably going to face the consequences of these policies and then you need to debate the validity of them

#50

Love you too! Words and more words

#51

haha, you two :smiley:

diversity and inclusivity are the flavour of the day, and yet this is a thread about how techno and house are staticā€¦ maybe thereā€™s a connection here.

Do you not think maybe house and techno is full of traditionally male parameters? How many girls are brought up to fiddle with computers, and how many boys are taught to sing their hearts out?

Music mags are full of diverse editors and writers and this kind of talk, but still the crowd for underground music seems fairly static.

This is just me of course, but if one of my tunes gets put in a Spotify playlist I can see my audience are 50/50 female/male, but through my own channels like Youtube/Facebook (i.e. my actual fanbase), I can see audience and audience participation is much, much more male (things like likes and comments are almost 100%). As far as Iā€™m aware, I make music seemingly with everyone in mind, but somehow I end up with a different result. [by the way, if you are an electronic/underground musician and have an entirely female audience, please do speak up]

Perhaps if people want to see diverse audiences they should begin to look at how different genders are currently drawn to different genres and modes of expression in general, and begin cultural exchange between scenes/genders.

As it stands we might as well ask why no straight white males turn up to the beauty pageant.

I think it would mean changing yourself beyond where you are comfortable, and i think that is one example of what Adam Curtis was alluding to.

#52

Yeah, well thereā€™s obviously lots of research on this matter as for example women prefer more ā€˜popā€™ music in general. This will probably come as no surprise, but implicit in the whole music criticism industry (although dying) is that pop is bad, rock or generally disruptive music is good. Lots of this diversity politics to me sounds like an pretty obvious disdain for feminity and (letā€™s call it traditional) feminine interests. Why is it preferable if festivals has 50/50 lineup? Why should there be more female fronted rock-bands? What societal problem does these issues solve, since some are pushing for it so hard?

Regarding media consumption it is widely known that Youtube is a male dominated platform. Spotify probably 50/50 as you say. Other platform skew more female (instagram/tumblr). And regarding tech interest thereā€™s ample evidence that this differ by gender. Obviously not always, but still. Just wait till you have kids.

But honestly I find thereā€™s lots of female djs and producers in the spotlight. Some would might argue that those who occupy the spotlight are those who have the looks as well, but letā€™s not go in to that discussion.

#53

Iā€™m up for it, Iā€™m up for seeing females and males making culture together. But to get to the gist, look at the female underground, a few off the top of my head: Juliana Barwick, Grouper, Laurel Halo, Tirzah, Smerz, Lolina, Klein, many many more. All of them are challenging their gender norms by a long way, but ask yourself: What guy is making similar music to these girls? Fuck all, Iā€™d say

[happily taking suggestions]

#54

I love Laurel Halo the rest I dont know. But absolutely! More power to them and maybe women do provide a different aesthetic viewpoint although that can be discussed. I just canā€™t see why equal gender representation should be the goal as such. As long as there is no discrimination as far as that can be completely eradicated.

#55

the quality of live music, parties, gigs and clubs near you is a local issues, OP, which you should be tackling alongside your local peers, rather than on an international anonymous internet forum. find a local DJ who plays exciting dance music, encourage someone near you to become one, or become one yourself. theres more innovative music out there than anyone has time to listen to

#56

Dude, electronic music is rife with discrimination. It baffles me that you donā€™t see the underrepresentation of female/non-binary artists as discrimination, but aside from that: female DJs often get paid way less than their male peers, Iā€™d be surprised to find a club or festival WITHOUT sexual harassment and female DJs often get looked down on by stage managers / sound guys etc.

Read any of the below articles/threads if you want to get an idea what Iā€™m talking about:

http://mixmag.net/read/we-need-to-talk-about-sexual-harassment-in-nightclubs-blog?p=words/features/we-need-to-talk-about-sexual-harassment-in-nightclubs

#57

No doubt thereā€™s sexual harassment in clubs but that is not unique for electronic music. Quite the contrary in fact and youā€™ll probably see that this correlates positively with alcohol intake and negatively with MDMA thus making electronic music spaces the safer bet.

I donā€™t believe in discrimination being the cause of lack of representation of women though, it makes no sense to me. It is not a especially ā€˜machoā€™ culture expect in some singular subdomains.

Sound guys, however, can be obnoxious. They mock everyone who is not a tech nerd. I myself have been mocked by guys like that.

Of course thereā€™s also the ā€œNina Kraviz effectā€.

#58

Nerd culture is also not especially ā€œmachoā€ but look how toxic that has become when it comes to misogyny.

#59

For sure, at this point I feel like a lot of discrimination comes not from ā€œmacho dudesā€ but from guys who feel bullied by same and take that out on women.

Iā€™ll say that certainly the sexism Iā€™ve been witness to in dance music circles - going from things as casual as assuming a female DJ has no real knowledge/skills to instances of actual violence/abuse - came from ā€œsensitiveā€, artsy types.

#60

Yes ironically that is often the case.

#61

industrial/noise dudes coming to techno without prior groundings in funk or dub or other black musics is the biggest problem for me. it becomes a self-referential thing where the guys are referencing other industrial bands. so much funkless material. with 90s cologne/hague acid and early downwards this wasnā€™t a problem.

Bristol stuff/no symbols stuff is good but as time goes by i feel like theyā€™re going down the hessle route and becoming more orthodox.

i still keep an occasional eye on jerome hill/fun-in-the-murky and other wonky techno but thatā€™s a really small scene tbh.