Is techno/house static?

[chava]

What was the political implications or inherent message of rave/acid/jungle?

[A.V]

I don’t agree with your point in the slightest.

1. If ‘dancing is always way more than hedonism / escapism from the political’ what is it if not political?

2. Every action (or inaction) in this world is political. Think of people being able to dance cos they earn money they can spend on music, have time to go out cos they don’t have to work three jobs to provide for their family etc. Something doesn’t need to be a political statement as such in order for it to be political. The fact that early house producers used the 303 is because it was very cheap at the time, and most of them couldnt afford high-end production tools.

3. Seeing the political in the world around me doesn’t block my aesthetic sensibility, I still enjoy art/music/literature as much as the next person.

[chava]

People have been dancing since the dawn of time. It is a ritualistic, often shamanic practice that is way more related to metaphysics and religious ideas than anything else, such as economy.

[A.V]

Okay yes, and what for my other objections?

[chava]

It wasn’t because the 303 was cheap the revolution happened, it could have been any other machine if that was the reason. But maybe because of its severe limitations and historical conceptions of what as bassline was and how it was part of the foundation/background and not in ‘focus’. And as well as a haphazard pragmatic and utilitarian way of doing music by Dj Pierre. Lots of things really, and not only, but also, I give you that, socio economic conditions.

3. of course. Just teasing a bit

[doss]

i wouldn’t say they had a strictly defined political message… Rather than dance music having a defined message, its always been an abstract thing - which is the opposite of politics - and that makes it powerful and futuristic in the rejection of linear, black and white political function - the meaninglessness and spiritualistic aspect of it - is anti politic.

[A.V]

Yeah I guess the disagreement here is about the difference between politics and political. This is a nice and short article explaining why everything is political: https://lifehacker.com/everything-is-political-and-always-has-been-1818724298

[chava]

Well I respectfully disagree. Politics is built upon moral foundations, maybe even notion of aesthetics.

Besides current research shows that voting patterns are probably primarily influenced by your temperament which again is highly biological and heritable. So maybe politics is just an expression of DNA variation?

[A.V]

Okay, agree to disagree it is. Can’t help but feel we don’t understand each others point, but it’s not worth fighting over. Ciao!

[chava]

Just to be clear of course there is a political and socio economic dimension to music and art I just point out that it’s not the whole story (and for me not the primary either)

[A.V]

Yeah I know, agree to disagree it is

[n3ptun3]

More importantly, I’d like to argue that a HUGE innovating task lies not in creating certain new (sub)genres, but more in creating a safe space where everyone can be themselves, equal line-ups where female/non-binary DJs get paid exactly the same as their male counterparts and in general a certain utopia that doesnt exist in the day-to-day world as we know it. I think that’s a way that dance music can be truly revolutionary and powerful (think of Bassiani!) and a necessary antidote to the likes of Trump, May and other neoliberal fucks.

Techno culture as a wholehas always been a social “safe space” and experiment zone to free the more opressed (women, PoC, LGBTQ fols etc).
The main idea of gathering at a rave is a strong revolt to the neoliberal and accelerationist forces operating at a deep level in our society.
Of course you don’t see that happening at festival sponsored by big brands etc. Not that I dislike them but hoping to have a somewhat safe space and revolutionary action there is a stretch. I don’t think incorporating more women or person from a minority group will necessary shift something, although I agree it would be nice to see a more diverse lineups in clubs and festival (how many times does MCDE need to play the same set over and over again).
Cheers

[coldsholda]

Hey Chava,

Particularly for genres like house and techno that are predominantly sounds made for the club, there has always existed a tension between the individual and the collective, particularly in terms of ownership. Who has the right to enjoy the music and why? This is fundamentally a political issue.

To make matters more complex, the dance floor engenders the possibility of anonymity, which can completely erase any semblance of the individual. If we consider the arguments made by Adam Curtis in the Century of the Self (definitely worth watching if you haven’t seen it), the dance floor is probably one of the last places that a sense of commonality can currently exist and flourish. It might also be the only place where new forms of collectivity can arise from, as the superiority of the individual is flattened by sonic barrages, shrouded in darkness, punctured by lights and with every other identity in the crowd, warped into one impulsive mass.

The possibility of anonymity – which with regards to the political power generated by data mining is of paramount concern – ought not preclude a substantive system of ethics, however. We must always be held accountable for our actions. I recently rewatched pump up the volume (another one you should see if you haven’t already) and it was alarming the number of times sexual misconduct was insinuated throughout. Can all genders enjoy music (not just techno or house) just as much men currently can? Not yet. Until true equality arrives on the dance floor, it might be impossible for the rest of society to follow suit. This makes music political in the most radical sense of the word.

I hope that all sounded as convivial as I meant it to - really hard to gauge discursive tones in these domains.

[A.V]

Hmm not agree with you there…

I’d want techno culture to be the safe space you sketch, but as a space it has been dominated by white men for a very long time. This is the case from line-ups to releases to promoters to punters, and from the commercial to the underground. Evidence of this can be found in the unequal representation on line-ups, but also in the countless stories of harassment, amongst other things. Booking more women/non-binary/Poc is one step of many to cure this techno culture and bring it back to the ideals it started with.

[bambataa]

I wonder if the issue is less the music and more the clubs and spaces. For me the archetype of ‘radical techno’ is early 90s Berlin, where just the act of dancing in a particular place had such meaning. Clubbing (in London at least) seems to have lost the ‘dancing in a re-purposed’ space that made it feel a bit more radical and transgressive. Same with festivals obviously.

I’m not saying it’s the only factor, but surely you’re going to have a slightly different attitude on the dance floor if you’ve travelled out of the way to some sketchy industrial building versus dancing in Fabric. Andy Blake from World Unknown talked about this in an interview, where he said that they liked to use venues that required a bit of an effort to get to as it just set you up to enjoy it more when you got there and share it with everyone else at the place.

[chava]

Techno culture is not an unified (sub)culture. It has always contained a large variety of scenes with diverging aethetics and values. Some more ‘mainstream’, som DIY, some rural, some urban, some working class, some upper/middle class, some aggressive, some passive/meek, some intellectual, som visceral etc etc.

[n3ptun3]

Fair enough. I think it’s just I put more of a focus on the crowd than on the dj or anyone involved in the “scene”. I don’t like this starification of the dj and am sure that the crowd is more responsible for the quality of the night than the dj that I view more as fire starter of some sort.
I’ve always been partial to the idea of “forcing” these kind of change and I would love to see the focus get back on the music side rather than the gender and/or race of the performer. I hate those “all women lineups” because I feel they diminish those women as artists and put them in a box…
Anyway I might be wrong but my utopia is that we should stop to focus on the identities of the person involved in the music scene and concentrate on what those people are capable of.

[A.V]

Yeah I don’t like the starification of DJs either, and can definitely see your point re: all women line-ups. However, I believe that this extra focus on identity is necessary, to even it out and at the very least provide role models for young girls/non-binary people who want to DJ but find only men in their local clubs (or on international platforms).

In other words: in an ideal world we would judge DJs solely on their capabilities, but right now it’s vital to put effort into booking equal line-ups, since we’ve seen that all male line-ups dominated electronic music for the last 30 years or so, with considerably less outrage than the all female line-ups currently get…

[chava]

Unless there are explicity discrimination going on I find this a pretty dire development. There has always been fewer female djs in the underground techno/house scene and I honestly don’t see what’s the big fuss is about.

Also remember: if it is a good party you mostly don’t even know who is playing.

[chava]

as a space it has been dominated by white men for a very long time.

well back in the 90s my record collection was def dominated by black men. nowadays it seems my favorite artists are some kind of transgender types. things change, eh.