Do you have a healthy relationship with music?

#1

There’s a lot of comments online about what people are doing wrong with how they listen to music, but a lot of it is a response to an idea of a population of other people. But just for you, do you think you have a healthy relationship with music?

  • Yes
  • No, and I think it is bad
  • No, but I think it is necessary

0 voters

And also, what do you think makes a healthy relationship with music? I don’t think there’s necessarily a one-size fits all answer for that question, but I’m interested in seeing where people fit in to this.

SOPHIE // Oil of Every Pearl's Un-insides (Transgressive)
#2

The only positive thing not having a steady income is that I would be fucking poor, instead of just poor, if I had money to buy records.

#3

Depends if we are talking about listening or making music. I always felt like producing music was tedious and I question myself about the whole point of all of it but I can’t help but keep coming back for more. I feel it’s a way to accomplish myself outside of work and all the boring stuff happening in one’s life. And there is something magical happening when you on a creative stroke of genius !

As for the experience of music as a listener, I think it’s a great way to feel happy. The art of digging is also something that calms my nerves.

#4

Yeah I think the capitalism angle is important for what I consider a healthy relationship. I have a steady income now but I mostly buy digital because I would be spending way too much if I was dealing with physical. And I do wonder sometimes if I spend too much money on music even with that, but I think I have it at a level where it’s not harming other aspects of my life.

Ah I actually hadn’t considered that, I was thinking exclusively as a listener. But if you’re making music, that’s a significant part of the relationship you have with music and it’s a good point to bring up the rewards you get there.

#5

I’d say the only unhealthy aspect of my relationship with music is that I sometimes listen to other’s music and feel annoyed with myself that my own attempts aren’t as good. When you hear a great track it sounds so effortless, yet most of the time, despite putting all my energy into it, I only end up disappointed and occasionally have thoughts of selling all my gear. Somewhere along the way I forgot how to enjoy making music and not care so much about it being perfect or living up to my expectations.

#6

hahaha, great question. I would like to hear some examples of what you think people are saying out there, ‘how others are doing it wrong’, etc. just for a laff.

I personally just engage with the stuff I’m interested in, and I focus on digging that out and refining that, rather than rely on algorithms, or genres, or peer pressure to like certain stuff. I will check out certain things people are listening to, and try to view it on it’s own terms if it’s not for me, but that’s always separate from what I actually engage with and would call my own. I think the trap where people (including myself in the past) start getting quite cynical is where they are stuck in a loop of being fed music they don’t enjoy but everyone else around them is enjoying it, and it becomes a bitter cycle very quickly.

When it comes to mainstream music, I do quickly spin into pure hate mode, and it’s funny because I love foreign pop, where I can’t identify the types of people making it, or the types of clichés that are being sung as easily. It seems to show the superego acting as a kind of border control, deciding what can pass before allowing any kind of pure aesthetic enjoyment to begin. Being conscious of that and over-riding it can be a difficult thing, it seems easier actually to just create something new and begin again.

@deprecate ouch yeah, I think it helps to begin to appreciate imperfection in your own work. The amount of music out there means there will always be some bright idea you didn’t think of, it will always be that way. There’s a really good tip about envy; and it’s to recognise this feeling is there to show you something you desire to be, it’s internal advice and motivation, rather than something to feel guilty about or hide, and put yourself down. Keep going.

#7

No, because I’m obsessive, spend too much money and am probably doing damage to my hearing

#8

I gotta get going to sleep but I’ll get a post in later going over some of the most common points I see with some examples, because it is pretty funny how strict people can be about something that literally billions of people alive right now are doing. Thanks of the post, I’ll have to re-read it when I’m more awake but I’m excited by the response so far and I’m looking forward to hearing what you all think!

#9

as regards doing it wrong, i regularly see certain people railing against people who listen to ambient to “chill out” or help them read/work, because it’s just furthering a capitalist agenda

saw one particular producer say that ambient is social and should be experienced with other people. personally i hate any kind of prescriptive ideas about music like this one, especially when it doesn’t take into consideration an individual’s own circumstances, be that related to finance, mental health etc

#10

I think I have a healthy relationship to music and I hope this will last for a long time. It’s even better: music makes me healthier (except for the ears …). All the different aspects like digging for music, spinning records, doing mixes, producing beats, try out synthesizers, going to concerts and clubs, talking with friends about it … it helped me a lot through more or less serious personal struggles and also gave my a lot of confidence in myself.

I don’t like it when people are becoming these bitter and cynical music-lovers / music-makers so I focus mostly on the stuff I like instead of ranting too much about all the shit I don’t like. It wastes too much energy and who has the time for that anyway? I guess for this it’s a good thing to have a normal job outside of this music-thing. I can do whatever I want more or less and don’t have to keep up with everything and don’t have to struggle with getting gigs or whatever. I guess I’m happy with how it is now.

#11

i regularly see certain people railing against people who listen to ambient to “chill out” or help them read/work, because it’s just furthering a capitalist agenda

Wot?

Anyhow, you can definitely have a unhealthy relationship witb anyhing you like like getting obsessive to the point of ocd, novelty seeking/neomania, using music as cultivating a fake persona etc. I personally never trust my initial responses and then always wait buying something until its too late, really. What I like at first listen is just reaffirming what I already “know”. Also I once exhibited extreme puritan behaviour and limited myself to not own more than 250 records at any given time, as I believed that otherwise inflation (not economic) would set in. That idea went down the drain after mp3 entered the world.

But I would generally say that answering this question is very much dependent on your age.

#12

My bad habits are as follows. Maybe some of you will be able to empathise…

Listening to music in the car - Nothing wrong with this of course, however, well over half of what I listen to is heard in the car due to me driving a lot more through work.
This dramatically alters the sort of music I’m listening to. Tends to be less in the ‘rock’ oeuvre and more in the sphere of big ignorant beats.
Nothing too busy, challenging or experimental as it puts me off driving. Nothing with police sirens in either because it makes me shit myself :grin:

Not using my hifi - Having my setup in the living room means I’m limited as to when I can listen to my records, I get a few hours a week maybe. Also, nobody else in the house want to listen to Autechre or Mark Fell :confused: so i find that i have to keep the audience happy and play something everyone likes.
@chava made a point about keeping your collection to a manageable number and sometimes the thought crosses my mind but purely for practical reasons. I don’t have a massive collection but it still takes up a lot of space and I just don’t get the time to listen to it all.

Making music in headphones - Not ideal but pretty much 99% of my own music is made in the headphones. I’ll do a bounce-down now and then and listen to it on my hifi, occasionally mic up my amp to record something but apart from that it’s all in the phones.

Listening to records on headphones - I bought another set of phones just for listening to my records but about 4 weeks into this regime and I’m still finding it a bit weird isolating myself from the family while I sit there listening to what i consider music.

Please help, my family are dying.

#13

This is a very interesting thread, and a great question that I never posed in so many words. Personally, I am in the “no-but-it’s-necessary” category. I have always found that making music, or any creative endeavour, encourages and perhaps even benefits from a certain degree of self-destruction. Some of that is unintentional — i.e. forgetting to eat regularly, working long hours and not sleeping. When I write, I tend to do it in long stretches, sometimes 14 or more hours. This can lead to feeling squirrely, and is definitely unhealthy. In the past, drugs were a part of that equation as well, and it’s no wonder that so many artists die before their time, because you have to push yourself in some way to do something extraordinary. The only people who know exactly where the edge is are those who’ve gone over it.

#14

So one thing I was thinking about with this was discussion around data from Spotify that showed a high rate of skipping on songs. Someone dug into the data in 2014 https://musicmachinery.com/2014/05/02/the-skip/ and found the following

Skipped in Likelihood of skip
First 5 seconds 24.14 %
First 10 seconds 28.97 %
First 30 seconds 35.05 %
Before song finishes 48.6 %

And this was referred to as disturbing, or claim in the comments of an article that artists “now only have 5 seconds to capture a listener” or that “Too many people looking for quick fixes of entertainment, rather than sit down and listen, learn and appreciate the art they are listening to.”

And I think this connects to comments like this

or the sort of comments that come up in a search like https://www.google.com/search?q=“forgotten+in+3+weeks”+music where people say some new music will be forgotten in 3 weeks.

I’m not sure why 3 weeks seems to be the most common measurement there. But yeah, I don’t know how often it really gets articulated in full, but I have this impression of a perspective around music where because there’s so much of it, people don’t develop any sort of lasting relationships with new music, everything is ephemeral and we all have A.D.D. They aren’t truly listening. I would say that would fall under an unhealthy relationship with music, if it really did work that way.

But I’m not so sure it does actually work that way. People can be skipping music that they already have a relationship with, you can have limited exposure to all of the things people are talking about while still building something lasting with a more manageable amount of music, and the profitability of nostalgic writing ensures that we will never forget about anything that has ever been remotely popular.

So yeah it’s all very complicated, and you all have provided me with even more to chew on, thanks for the comments!

#15

In an ideal world you should always spend quality time with your kids, your wife, your family, your friends, all your relationships should be healthy and sound, you should be friendly to everyone you meet, and show mercy to whoever is cruel to you. In an ideal world you’re successful in all your endeavors, kind hearted, blah blah blah. In an ideal world you have 10 hours every day to sit in a comfortable chair with the best speakers available to you, where you can quietly sip at a £100 Bourbon while taking in the latest releases on the most pristine of sound systems, while deliberately conclude how they’re all worthwhile efforts, and there’s something to explore in all of them!

In the real world, you just don’t have that luxury. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know, I probably don’t give a lot of music enough of a chance and listen to too much music on crappy headphones with too much noise around, but honestly, I don’t have the time to listen through it all 10 times on great speakers. :slight_smile:

#16

£10 scotch on a half-decent sound system is doable at least once a week. I’d sebtle for that.

#17

Creativity is associated (correlated) with schizophrenia and manic depression, so there’s some truth in the mad genius struggling artist stereotype. Also there’s somewhat of a connection between creativity and fatherless/fatherly absence (the Leonardo principle) which I can’t help thinking of when in awe of the latest rap/hiphop act.

#18

Given that Spotify is heavily used for algorithmic playlists, another way of looking at this data is that the algorithms aren’t good at giving people what they want to listen to…

#19

oh yeah this is a good point, like if you look at some of the fake genres they make up based on observed listening trends, they make a weird sort of sense but also have a factor of wtf. You can see the artists getting grouped together on the site that lists all the spotify genres, http://everynoise.com (warning: this site will play music when you click on a genre name, you have to mouse over the name and then click on the >> that appears to the right of the name to view genre details, what a shitty interface). People have noticed escape room is a weird one

http://everynoise.com/engenremap-escaperoom.html

But another weird one is Permanent Wave. This seems to be like classic rock, except for waves.

http://everynoise.com/engenremap-permanentwave.html

Ninja is one that is basically centralized around Ninja Tune, but with some twists

http://everynoise.com/engenremap-ninja.html

But yeah it makes sense that these genres they create that are based on observed aggregate user data and then used for recommendations would be a big contributor to the skip rate.

#20

I’m familiar with ENAO, it’s fascinating! The creator, Glenn McDonald, is a nice guy.

Tangential, but regarding the Escape Room genre you can read the explanation in Glenn’s own words:

This is one where the genre comes from collective listening patterns, but I made up the name myself, because I couldn’t figure out any existing one to apply. The vibe is kind of an underground-trap/PC-music/indietronic/activist-hip-hop kind of thing, and I thought of “escape room” both for the sense of escaping from trap, and for the ideas of excitement, puzzle-solving and indoorness implied by the actual physical escape-room phenomenon.