Kanye West sampling Mono No Aware. What are your thoughts?

#21

I don’t know what my thoughts on this subject are to be honest. I love M.E.S.H. on PAN and here he is talking about all the samples he collects from everywhere. https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2452 Is it different if it’s somebody’s YouTube video? Some background sound? An obscure tune nobody knows? I mean, if club music was paying out royalties for samples Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy would be raking in the royalties for the HA sample.

#22

which is also so so so materialistic

#23

this is the point I was trying to make. thank you. We should all think about this as music makers.

#24

It’s all about power dynamics. Someone with more power / money / influence samples someone with less of each and doesn’t compensate them = shitty. Pretty straightforward!

“Exposure” is exploitative BS, IMO.

#25

Yes sampling without crediting the artist nor compensating is a shitty situation, but I think @jomes.bloke pretty much explained perfectly sampling may seems like a black and white topic but in my opinion it’s super gray.

#26

“exposure” is worth nothing to the artist if the majority of the listeners regards it as Kanye’s song, Kanye’s beat and Kanye’s sample. the only ones who mention Kareem Lofty are the ones who’ve known about him or the Mono No Aware LP or PAN before.

#27

this is true. however, there have always been superficial fans and hardcore cratediggers in the hip-hop universe, which (I think) was kind of the point that @Boethius was trying to make earlier, namely, does it even really matter in the grand scheme? does it really have any effect on our enjoyment of 3 Feet High and Rising knowing some of the original artists were never compensated?

#28

I mean the point I was trying to make was that It’s not even about the exposure, being credited or compensating. It was about sharing the idea. I just read Kanye also sampled Aphex Twin, he didn’t pay him either. It’s like the man who played the funky drummer, he never got paid or got credited on any D&B, Hardcore or Jungle record. It’s a shame the dude died broke.

#29

what’s the point here?
this is not about De La Soul or classic Hardcore and Jungle records.
this is about Kanye West, one of the biggest names in the industry, who is notorious for not paying people, stealing samples, and yes, who even tried to make Avril 14th his own.
the point is that Kanye needs to stop stealing music.

#30

no one is getting their panties in a twist about the old church record he sampled at the beginning of “Ghost Town”. I guess we’re reserving our outrage for trendy scene kids from Berlin living off their trust funds? hip hop is sampling, full stop.

#31

I know given his recent comments about slavery and alignment with the alt-right and Trump that it’s (rightly) easier to hate on Kanye than ever but…people keep using words like “steal” and “pass off” when talking about this sampling situation.

Do you not think that more than likely, it’s a case of a rushed production and release schedule meaning that Kanye forgot to cross all the Ts and dot the Is and he (or his people, do you really think he or artist at that level is personally reaching out to every artist he samples?) simply forgot to get this sample cleared?

Ego aside, so much of Kanye’s music is collaborative and intertextual that I don’t think even he’d try to claim a sample as his own wholly original creation. You only have to look at the credits on some of the songs on his last two or three albums to see that he’s pretty big on giving people their due.

#32

that song has Shirley Ann Lee and Trade Martin listed as writers

#33

clearing samples is a stage of production. have you ever heard of Kanye releasing an unmastered song, because they “forgot” about mastering it?
besides, this isn’t New Slaves all over again. this time his lawyers haven’t even reached out to PAN or KL.

because it is stealing without any form of compensation. Kanye moves millions with his music while building whole songs around samples of uncredited, unknown musicians who probably worked months on their songs. this isn’t right. just clear your samples up front (like he did on TLOP) and everyone is happy.

#34

Didn’t this sort of happen with half of the songs on TLOP, and then they were updated with newer versions and tracks?

Fair play. I agree that in practise its stealing, i just also don’t think its a case of him gleefully rubbing his hands and twisting his moustache…if you get my meaning.

Either way, it doesn’t really matter what I think or what I imagine Kanye’s intentions were. You are completely right in saying that these people do deserve full credits and renumeration for their work and it’s a very bad that this hasn’t happened. Especially on such a high profile album from such a huge artist.

#35

It’s a difficult one… Especially when you look at something like J Dilla - Donuts which is essentially an entire album of loops, is this just bringing that idea forward to newer music, but eitherway sample clearance should be paid especially if it is being used in that manner. It’s also been brought to my attention Kareem Lofty actually also sampled (although heavily processed) a french hip hop track for that tune.

Subject of sampling is always really difficult. I know personally when I sample I gotta make that shit my own

#36

…endtroducing has a fairly comprehensive list of samples and credits in the liner notes. Pretty sure Paul’s Boutique does too, so it’s doable. Big hip-hop productions even used to employ a sample-clearance lawyer dedicated to this purpose solely, and I’m pretty sure Kanye cleared everything until recently.

This is just kinda buying into the post-post-modern, market-driven, bullshit definition of ‘remix culture’ or whatever; the musical equivalent to Urban Outfitters ripping off artists and designers for profit, and then, optionally, paying out a settlement that won’t affect their bottom line anyway.

I think the line is drawn at the point where someone stands to profit from a production, which Kanye most definitely does. Something like a disco edit that will get a one-off vinyl-run of 300? Probably not.

The College Dropout is still one of my top 5 albums of all time, but Kanye’s fucking up.

#37

I’ve been a Kanye stan for 11 years since he dropped Graduation and I enjoy everything he puts out. However, I agree with was said above. Nowadays, we have a trend of putting out the idea first and dealing with clearance issues later. I’m the pretty sure the most fair way to deal with it would be cutting a check from the get-go.

#38

Apparently it might not be Kanye’s but co-producer’s fault https://twitter.com/andthelights/status/1002667912765665280

#39

Maybe we go back to re recording samples like in the 70s and 80s :joy:

#40

that’s straight up theft tho